I agree with Maggie. WHAT NEXT? Possible options, anyone?

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Feb 27, 2021
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Step back and take a breath. We all love DJT and thank him for what he accomplished, but for whatever reasons (and to be biblical, they are legion) he was in The Chair when the USA was gravely wounded (wee hours of Nov 4), died (Jan 6), and was buried (Jan 20) to adapt Maggie's metaphor. The Constitutional Republic USA is now dead and buried. The question is whether or not it will rise from the grave on the Third Day! I for one would love to see DJT at the helm again, but ONLY IF he's strong enough this time to have a real team behind him!

Options I see in no particular order:
1. Embrace the suck! Prognosis: not acceptable (if only because the old USA's enemies won't let it happen) but most likely.
2. Micro reform of the RNC with grass roots engagement, plan for magically reinvigorated 2022 and 2024 elections, clean house once back in office. Prognosis: pie in the sky. The brutal dictatorial Marxist fascists in change will not allow fair and free elections ever again, and this will be enshrined in law.
3. Nonviolent civil disobedience. Prognosis: this has possibility and a long history in many places like US Civil Rights and India Independence but is a very long haul and likely to be ruthlessly repressed. Do we as a fractured people have leaders with vision and organization to see it through, noting that successes were, for the most part, comprised of racially cohesive groups working against "others". If it has any chance of working, it must begin NOW with activities like withholding fed tax, lawsuit tsunamis, etc.
4. Separation I. "Free" states withdrawing from the federal structure (or setting up another Constitutional Republic in parallel) under the US Constitution. Prognosis: could work. Texas and Florida could provide the hubs for a reborn Constitutional Republic (which I would call the United States of America). USEXIT process could be well underway by 2022 and possibly give bargaining power for reforms (like a fair election). Many issues to resolve but doable.
5. Separation II. Similar to Separation I but done in alliance with existing countries outside the USA. Prognosis: unlikely, but could be worth examining.
6. Revival of moral values. The obvious way to recover the USA is a revival of traditional, moral, and social values that made America great in the first place. Revitalize BLUE cities. Alas, few agree what these are. Two years ago perhaps we could have taken back the conversation and come together to solve problems. Prognosis: unworkable. They won, we lost. They own all institutions including the mind of the youth.
7. Violent civil unrest. Take to the streets. Burn things down. Riot. Use their BLM, Antifa tactics against them. Set up a cell-structure underground to subvert, sabotage, tear the system down. Prognosis: we're probably headed there right now and the Fed power structure is preparing to counter. But innocent parties will be harmed. The problem we have no universal ideal or leadership in our country with moral authority of any standing to control the outcomes. It would be a matter of destroy, then Phoenix-like build on the ashes. Traditional enemies unlikely to remain silent.
8. Kinetic warfare. Execute asymptomatic warfare against the Federal Government. Start in outlying states and territories like Alaska and Puerto Rico and in BLUE cities, which are ready to fall into chaos almost immediately. Prognosis: must be a mass movement to trigger. Possible to phase in from civil unrest. Many issues, but leadership is the greatest. The advantage is that no one is ready for this and BLUE governments against whom it would be applied have unresponsive, weak leadership reliant upon a favorable media and BigTech, who would be the first targets.

And, oh, we'd probably need a song like "Take down the CCP."

Comments?
 
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The___Jay

Member
Jan 21, 2021
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Step back and take a breath. We all love DJT and thank him for what he accomplished, but for whatever reasons (and to be biblical, they are legion) he was in The Chair when the USA was gravely wounded (wee hours of Nov 4), died (Jan 6), and was buried (Jan 20) to adapt Maggie's metaphor. The Constitutional Republic USA is now dead and buried. The question is whether or not it will rise from the grave on the Third Day! I for one would love to see DJT at the helm again, but ONLY IF he's strong enough this time to have a real team behind him!

Options I see in no particular order:
1. Embrace the suck! Prognosis: not acceptable (if only because the old USA's enemies won't let it happen) but most likely.
2. Micro reform of the RNC with grass roots engagement, plan for magically reinvigorated 2022 and 2024 elections, clean house once back in office. Prognosis: pie in the sky. The brutal dictatorial Marxist fascists in change will not allow fair and free elections ever again, and this will be enshrined in law.
3. Nonviolent civil disobedience. Prognosis: this has possibility and a long history in many places like US Civil Rights and India Independence but is a very long haul and likely to be ruthlessly repressed. Do we as a fractured people have leaders with vision and organization to see it through, noting that successes were, for the most part, comprised of racially cohesive groups working against "others". If it has any chance of working, it must begin NOW with activities like withholding fed tax, lawsuit tsunamis, etc.
4. Separation I. "Free" states withdrawing from the federal structure (or setting up another Constitutional Republic in parallel) under the US Constitution. Prognosis: could work. Texas and Florida could provide the hubs for a reborn Constitutional Republic (which I would call the United States of America). USEXIT process could be well underway by 2022 and possibly give bargaining power for reforms (like a fair election). Many issues to resolve but doable.
5. Separation II. Similar to Separation I but done in alliance with existing countries outside the USA. Prognosis: unlikely, but could be worth examining.
6. Revival of moral values. The obvious way to recover the USA is a revival of traditional, moral, and social values that made America great in the first place. Revitalize BLUE cities. Alas, few agree what these are. Two years ago perhaps we could have taken back the conversation and come together to solve problems. Prognosis: unworkable. They won, we lost. They own all institutions including the mind of the youth.
7. Violent civil unrest. Take to the streets. Burn things down. Riot. Use their BLM, Antifa tactics against them. Set up a cell-structure underground to subvert, sabotage, tear the system down. Prognosis: we're probably headed there right now and the Fed power structure is preparing to counter. But innocent parties will be harmed. The problem we have no universal ideal or leadership in our country with moral authority of any standing to control the outcomes. It would be a matter of destroy, then Phoenix-like build on the ashes. Traditional enemies unlikely to remain silent.
8. Kinetic warfare. Execute asymptomatic warfare against the Federal Government. Start in outlying states and territories like Alaska and Puerto Rico and in BLUE cities, which are ready to fall into chaos almost immediately. Prognosis: must be a mass movement to trigger. Possible to phase in from civil unrest. Many issues, but leadership is the greatest. The advantage is that no one is ready for this and BLUE governments against whom it would be applied have unresponsive, weak leadership reliant upon a favorable media and BigTech, who would be the first targets.

And, oh, we'd probably need a song like "Take down the CCP."

Comments?
President Trump was strong enough. He accomplished everything, if sometimes only to a degree. We all knew election fraud was coming, but nobody could know that it would come on an industrial scale in a no-matter-what way. Trump outran Biden even more than Hillary to compensate for election fraud.

I largely agree with your points, but:
Micro reform of the RNC
Only a sweeping large scale reform will do. Any and all RINOs and Democrats must be removed from the GOP. The party must be able to kick anyone out who is not aligned with the party line.

Plus, of course:

9. Secession. Close borders to blue states. Ignore DC completely. Prepare for Civil War 2.0. Create military support structures and strategies for isolated Red States.
 

NvEric

Senior Member
Feb 7, 2021
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Nevada
Step back and take a breath. We all love DJT and thank him for what he accomplished, but for whatever reasons (and to be biblical, they are legion) he was in The Chair when the USA was gravely wounded (wee hours of Nov 4), died (Jan 6), and was buried (Jan 20) to adapt Maggie's metaphor. The Constitutional Republic USA is now dead and buried. The question is whether or not it will rise from the grave on the Third Day! I for one would love to see DJT at the helm again, but ONLY IF he's strong enough this time to have a real team behind him!

Options I see in no particular order:
1. Embrace the suck! Prognosis: not acceptable (if only because the old USA's enemies won't let it happen) but most likely.
2. Micro reform of the RNC with grass roots engagement, plan for magically reinvigorated 2022 and 2024 elections, clean house once back in office. Prognosis: pie in the sky. The brutal dictatorial Marxist fascists in change will not allow fair and free elections ever again, and this will be enshrined in law.
3. Nonviolent civil disobedience. Prognosis: this has possibility and a long history in many places like US Civil Rights and India Independence but is a very long haul and likely to be ruthlessly repressed. Do we as a fractured people have leaders with vision and organization to see it through, noting that successes were, for the most part, comprised of racially cohesive groups working against "others". If it has any chance of working, it must begin NOW with activities like withholding fed tax, lawsuit tsunamis, etc.
4. Separation I. "Free" states withdrawing from the federal structure (or setting up another Constitutional Republic in parallel) under the US Constitution. Prognosis: could work. Texas and Florida could provide the hubs for a reborn Constitutional Republic (which I would call the United States of America). USEXIT process could be well underway by 2022 and possibly give bargaining power for reforms (like a fair election). Many issues to resolve but doable.
5. Separation II. Similar to Separation I but done in alliance with existing countries outside the USA. Prognosis: unlikely, but could be worth examining.
6. Revival of moral values. The obvious way to recover the USA is a revival of traditional, moral, and social values that made America great in the first place. Revitalize BLUE cities. Alas, few agree what these are. Two years ago perhaps we could have taken back the conversation and come together to solve problems. Prognosis: unworkable. They won, we lost. They own all institutions including the mind of the youth.
7. Violent civil unrest. Take to the streets. Burn things down. Riot. Use their BLM, Antifa tactics against them. Set up a cell-structure underground to subvert, sabotage, tear the system down. Prognosis: we're probably headed there right now and the Fed power structure is preparing to counter. But innocent parties will be harmed. The problem we have no universal ideal or leadership in our country with moral authority of any standing to control the outcomes. It would be a matter of destroy, then Phoenix-like build on the ashes. Traditional enemies unlikely to remain silent.
8. Kinetic warfare. Execute asymptomatic warfare against the Federal Government. Start in outlying states and territories like Alaska and Puerto Rico and in BLUE cities, which are ready to fall into chaos almost immediately. Prognosis: must be a mass movement to trigger. Possible to phase in from civil unrest. Many issues, but leadership is the greatest. The advantage is that no one is ready for this and BLUE governments against whom it would be applied have unresponsive, weak leadership reliant upon a favorable media and BigTech, who would be the first targets.

And, oh, we'd probably need a song like "Take down the CCP."

Comments?
# 3-6 have merit
Your #7 and #8 mark you as stupid or a troll.
While there maybe some in the military to assist or more so to Stand Down if #3 is employed, blood spilled serves less, for it's not the way of the future.
#3 is the Best Bet if it works, and the least harmful afterwards.
Civilized people abhor violence, even though it's inherent in all of us. Violence will cause deaths, and for that reason it's harder to control, and must be rejected for many reasons, especially if #6 is a valid point of yours - moral values - and if pro-life is a consideration.
 
Feb 27, 2021
77
78
18
President Trump was strong enough. He accomplished everything, if sometimes only to a degree. We all knew election fraud was coming, but nobody could know that it would come on an industrial scale in a no-matter-what way. Trump outran Biden even more than Hillary to compensate for election fraud.

I largely agree with your points, but:

Only a sweeping large scale reform will do. Any and all RINOs and Democrats must be removed from the GOP. The party must be able to kick anyone out who is not aligned with the party line.

Plus, of course:

9. Secession. Close borders to blue states. Ignore DC completely. Prepare for Civil War 2.0. Create military support structures and strategies for isolated Red States.
Hey Jay, thanks for your comments. IMHO, Trump was personally strong but had a pee-weak administration (with many notable exceptions) to support him with legislation, legal, military... dare I go on.

Your comments on succession fit with mine on separation (I and II). I would think that there could be hard separation (civil war) and soft separation (Constitutional and/or referenda and/or constitutional conference) by mutual agreement. Agreement could include certain joint functions (e.g., defence; internal border control; etc.) for a set period. Of course, that would require good faith on both sides, but possibly doable to avoid civil war.

I used micro-reform of RNC only because that's what Bannon & Co are presenting with deplorables filling the several hundred unfilled committee positions. The RINOs would still have the control because they would control the money. IMHO, macro reform would only be possible in the unlikely event that DJT or a clone won the 2024 presidency with a favorable House and Senate. which does not seem to be likely.

Anyway, I was after discussion and thanks for your input.

Blessings, Ray
 
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Feb 27, 2021
77
78
18
# 3-6 have merit
Your #7 and #8 mark you as stupid or a troll.
While there maybe some in the military to assist or more so to Stand Down if #3 is employed, blood spilled serves less, for it's not the way of the future.
#3 is the Best Bet if it works, and the least harmful afterwards.
Civilized people abhor violence, even though it's inherent in all of us. Violence will cause deaths, and for that reason it's harder to control, and must be rejected for many reasons, especially if #6 is a valid point of yours - moral values - and if pro-life is a consideration.
Thx for your comments, although your comments on 7 and 8 are a bit harsh. I was listing potential courses of action, and they're certainly on the table the way things are going. BTW, I'm a combat infantry vet 173d Airborne (CIB, PH, etc.), so I don't take these things lightly. I am aware that even raising as part of a complete listing of alternatives is likely to have everything canceled, but thought I'd give it my best shot. BTW, I agree that #3 is the best way to go (for the time being). I'm a Bible-believing Christian but don't see a national revival of any kind on the cards (with Man it's impossible, but with God all things are possible). I didn't list prayer as I figured it's covered in #6. Blessings, Ray
 

Schaferhund

Well-known Member
Jan 8, 2021
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280
63
We may be able to agree that all three branches are corrupted, add Propaganda wing known as Main Stream Media.
We the people have been given by the Founders Article V of Constitution designed for a time just like we are experiencing.
Article V lets us go around Congress to Amend Constitution in order to stop or curb the Corruption.
Article V depends heavily on the people keeping the States Legislatures HONEST !
This is NOT a quick fix and will take work and vigilance on the part of us in a majority of the States.
The upside is that if enough "we the people" get engaged this will be a "bloodless" battle.
Downside is that it does not offer instant gratification and for some of the radicals that advocate "taking up arms" they won't get the bloody and chaotic mess that will result.
David Barton in his Webinar last night hosted by Convention of States initiative, laid out how we should be approaching our situation at lower levels of Govt. i.e. State Legislatures and the Convention of States initiative.
 

CitizensLiberty

Active Member
Feb 17, 2021
165
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28

After the Collapse of America: The Democratic Republic of America
Collapse Cover for Gabby.jpg


The citizens of America are irrevocably split between Democratic socialists, who desire a global socialist nation, and natural rights conservatives, who want nothing to do with socialism.
There are no shared cultural values that bind the citizens into a common national mission.
 

The___Jay

Member
Jan 21, 2021
68
55
18
# 3-6 have merit
Your #7 and #8 mark you as stupid or a troll.
While there maybe some in the military to assist or more so to Stand Down if #3 is employed, blood spilled serves less, for it's not the way of the future.
#3 is the Best Bet if it works, and the least harmful afterwards.
Civilized people abhor violence, even though it's inherent in all of us. Violence will cause deaths, and for that reason it's harder to control, and must be rejected for many reasons, especially if #6 is a valid point of yours - moral values - and if pro-life is a consideration.
You forget that civility has ended on January 20. This is not the time to play "that's not who we are".
 

CitizensLiberty

Active Member
Feb 17, 2021
165
59
28
You forget that civility has ended on January 20. This is not the time to play "that's not who we are".
Excerpt from upcoming CLP article on Rush Limbaugh:
We advise Rush listeners to embrace the reality that America has died, and that it is time to move on.

We believe it is silly for Rush listeners, and Trump voters, to continue to believe that the Former United States (FUSA) can be rehabilitated.

We believe it is silly to believe that the MAGA Humpty Dumpty can be put back together again, up on the wall.

It is senseless to attempt to launch a Trump conservative movement within the establishment Republican Party.

We advocate that a better idea is to deploy the new American conservatism of Rush to create a new nation, whose constitution aims at correcting Madison’s flaws of FUSA.
 
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The___Jay

Member
Jan 21, 2021
68
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Hey Jay, thanks for your comments. IMHO, Trump was personally strong but had a pee-weak administration (with many notable exceptions) to support him with legislation, legal, military... dare I go on.

Your comments on succession fit with mine on separation (I and II). I would think that there could be hard separation (civil war) and soft separation (Constitutional and/or referenda and/or constitutional conference) by mutual agreement. Agreement could include certain joint functions (e.g., defence; internal border control; etc.) for a set period. Of course, that would require good faith on both sides, but possibly doable to avoid civil war.

I used micro-reform of RNC only because that's what Bannon & Co are presenting with deplorables filling the several hundred unfilled committee positions. The RINOs would still have the control because they would control the money. IMHO, macro reform would only be possible in the unlikely event that DJT or a clone won the 2024 presidency with a favorable House and Senate. which does not seem to be likely.

Anyway, I was after discussion and thanks for your input.

Blessings, Ray
The best strategy would IMHO be to just ignore DC, enforce state law and see what happens. That way the ball is in in their court. If they choose kinetic action (very likely) preparations should have been made beforehand.
 

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